078 - School Readiness with Drs. Jack Herrin and Janys Lim

Welcome to another episode of the Discerning Parenting podcast! I'm thrilled you're here with us today because we have a topic that resonates with so many parents: My child is ready for school, what can I do to prepare them?

These are some of the most common questions I receive, and today, we have two exceptional guests to help us answer them. Joining us are Dr. Jack Herrin and Dr. Janice Lim, both esteemed developmental pediatricians and, importantly, parents themselves. If you've been following our podcast, you'll know how insightful their advice is.

In this episode, we'll dive deep into understanding school readiness and practical steps you can take to ensure your child is prepared for this big milestone, whether it's preschool or kindergarten. Stay tuned for an engaging and informative discussion!

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Transcript

Welcome to Discerning Parenting, the podcast for parents of kids aged 12 and under who have learned the hard way that a one size fits all approach to parenting won't shift the needle for you, your child, or your family. Together. We'll explore intentional strategies that see both you and your kids thrive. 

Parenting strategies based on well conducted research in the areas of child development, brain science, and neurodiversity need practical for you. What  if you let go of perfect and embrace discerning parenting in your family instead? Instead,  if you feel like you've been stumbling your way through parenthood and you're ready to leave behind fight or flight mode parenting, then this is the podcast for you. 

I'm Dr. Victoria Angolasco, developmental and behavioral pediatrician and positive parenting coach on a mission to help you release your parenting guilt  so you can become laser focused on what will truly work for you. 

One of the most common questions that I get is, is my child ready for school? Another is, what can I do so that my child is ready when the time comes that they have to start school, whether it's preschool. So I'm glad that today we have with us two wonderful developmental pediatricians. And if you've been following the Discerning Parenting podcast, you will have heard from there before, Dr.

Jack Herrin and Dr. Janice Lin. And the wonderful thing about that is they are not just developmental pediatricians, but they are also parents. So they have faced the same questions that we are going to be answering today, which is, my child ready to start school? And what do I do so that my child is ready? 

I have been hearing about how competitive schools can feel today, that getting into a preschool can feel just as stressful as getting into university. And I know that parents can get quite anxious about this, so you're going to love to hear what our two experts have to say. Who have their expertise from working with parents and families as well as in their own families and with their kids.

Okay, so hello Dr. Jack and Dr. Janice. Thank you for joining us today. We're actually here from multiple time zones. Janice is all the way across the world. She is in Canada. And Jack is actually joining us while he is driving his car. So I am so sorry. I promise that he says it is not a safety issue, but that is how devoted he is to sharing his wisdom with us. 

Hello, everyone. Hi. Yeah, before we dive in, can you share a bit about yourselves and your experiences regarding preschool readiness, looking at whether a child is ready for preschool, whether it's the families that you work with or your own experiences at home? Let's see, I've got two daughters and of course they're in high school already and one is actually about to enter college in a couple of months. 

Um, so you know preschool was really more than maybe 15 years ago and The thought that really went into our family's mind was, um, Is my daughter ready for school? What, what would be the benefits of putting her through school at this age?  I, I believe we put her, uh, in the neighborhood preschool  at least the first time when she was about three and a half.

Uh, she eventually moved on to, uh, another preschool the following year. Um, before settling in, uh, in her, well, the preschool where she eventually graduated from high school as well, which had kindergarten all the way until, until the, um, 12th grade. And I guess at first, it was really just, you know, we were first time parents at the time, so, um, it was really about finding a place that was closer to home.

Uh, we were both working full time jobs and we were still in training, so that was an issue there, you know, we had to figure out if we were gonna go 24 hour duties,  who would be bringing our kid to and from school, because preschool is just, what, two hours at a time, and would that mean people would have to stay home, or would we be better off putting her closer to home, where, you know, somebody could probably walk with her, or you need to take a car, so I guess, It was really logistics the first time more than any qualifications.

Uh, we figured that at, uh, two and a half going on three, you know, her needs were really more of, um, further developing maybe her language skills, giving her people to socialize with, Uh, to make new friends,  and in terms of academic needs, I, I guess, you know, that took second, uh, backseat, and that would come much later.

Um, of course, when my second daughter started preschool, we already had figured things out pretty much, so she went to one preschool for the whole, you know, three years old, four, and  before she went to the big school as well. Um, unlike my, you know, my eldest who had to shift between one or two schools, we were, I think, a little more settled in by that time.

Jan? Yeah, for myself and my kids, right, I think that what Jack mentioned regarding logistics is a very important thing because there are many, many good schools out there and parents put this pressure regarding, you know, picking the best preschool or picking the best teacher. care based on reputation and maybe other parent reviews.

And I would never say that that's not important, but sometimes you have to keep in mind that. What's really going to be sustainable for your family is probably also going to be what's best for your family because if you have to drive like an hour or two away just to bring your kids to a preschool, that's not a good quality of life for yourself, neither would it be good quality of life for your child.

So you have to weigh and think about the benefits of doing something like that just based on, is it the top school in your area? Versus maybe something that's walkable, where other kids in the neighborhood also go, so that your kids friends would also be the people that she sees in school and can still play with during the weekend.

So, I think these are very important considerations. Other things that you have to think about is, It also really depends on what the community maybe expects from preschool activities. A lot of different cultures have different standards and maybe different expectations of what preschool schools should be.

Coming from two very different educational systems, comparing what I've experienced in terms of how the Philippines or maybe some Asian countries would be.  Versus some of the systems that are more prominent and maybe more popular in the Western countries, such as in Canada, I definitely see that there's a bit more of a leaning towards academics for Asian countries where the expectations are when their kids enter preschool, they have a the basics of maybe some scribbling or tracing of letters.

They recognize some letters and numbers and colors. And while those things are important, I think at the end of the day, really preschool readiness is about your child's emotional readiness. It's about your child's social readiness, and also taking into account what Jack had mentioned, the language skills of your child, because really you want them to be able to communicate enough.

They don't have to be the best speakers in the class, but they have to be able to communicate enough, whether by gestures, or whether by facial expressions, maybe. And some very simple words and phrases to their friends and their, and the adults in the room so that they can stay safe and their needs can be met.

I think those would probably be my priorities when it comes to school readiness, whether or not the child, feels emotionally ready. And in some cases, the parents too.  That is so true, Dr. Janice. And thank you for sharing both of your experiences, the process that you went through, how old your kids were when they started school and your considerations also on what is convenient for you and what would work for your family and for your kids.

And it is so true that social and emotional and language development are really so important during the toddler and the preschool years. And also it's very interesting Dr. Janice that you said that the parent also needs to be ready. So I'd like to hear you elaborate more on that. Yeah. I hear from parents things like, Oh, um, my child can't sit.

through, you know, the entire 40 minutes of a lesson, or maybe they're unable to completely understand their routine in a classroom. And I think we also have to let parents know what is developmentally appropriate. I think some of the parenting expectations is a bit Maybe skewed for older kids where they expect their preschool child to stop exploring and to just sit and listen for the length of time that the teacher is talking.

I, I think that you have to take the developmental level of the child into consideration. I mean if they are two and they are three, I'm happy if they can sit through like maybe 10 15 minutes, right? They need to explore. Like recently I had a parent who was worried because the teacher called her attention because she has a three year old and the teacher was saying like the three year old likes to explore.

Likes to play, likes to talk to her classmates, but that's what three year olds are supposed to do. Exactly, because that's how they learn, right? And so I always tell parents that you have to understand that putting your kids through school so that they can learn other things doesn't mean that you have to squash the personality that they also have, right?

Exactly. We're not trying to churn out the same kind of kid for everyone. Right. Yeah, and then going back to parent readiness, I think some parents struggle with the thought here in Canada, there's daycares. And so obviously, if you have to go to work, you kind of have no choice, you have to put your child into a daycare center so that you can go to work.

In some cases in the Philippines, though, I see some parents actually put their kids into preschools as early as maybe Two years old, some of them might try for 18 months. And I think that some parents struggle with that separation as well. Like they do wonder, is my kid too young? Maybe my kid's not ready.

Well, I always ask parents, are you ready? Are you okay with that separation? Because it's also totally fine if you don't send them to school. There's no immediate need that they need to learn their letters and their numbers at two years old. It just doesn't make sense. Like, if you want to play with your child at home and you're able to spend that time with your child, to teach your child, you know, the things that help them maybe stay in turn taking play where you do back and forth play and You laugh and you tickle your child or you go chasing your child or you go to a community playground with your child.

That's also going to be just as valuable. So I don't feel like you need to pressure yourself to follow what everybody else is doing. Yeah, that's so true. And thank you for sharing that, Dr. Janice. There's this common misconception that preschool readiness is about knowing the letters, the numbers. So sometimes parents would get stressed and they even ask, like, what worksheets should my child be doing so that they're ready for preschool?

Or what. videos should they be watching? There are these very popular videos that in their title claim to get kids ready for preschool, but they're actually about numbers and letters. They're actually very animated versions of letters and numbers. So there's this worry around preparing them for letters and numbers.

Again, as we said, those are things that can come later.  What are the things that our priorities to work on during these early years? so that they are equipped when they go to school. And you mentioned turn taking, which is  Uh, very important and then being able to handle their emotions to handle frustration because definitely at some time when they're in preschool, they're going to be frustrated.

They might have to do something that. They don't feel like doing at that moment, so they're going to need to have some form of impulse control. They're going to need to get along with others in their class. They will need to be able to understand the teacher's instructions, so that's receptive language.

So, those are things that they need to be able to participate in the activities in the classroom. And then, more than already knowing the ABCs. A hundred percent. I think you definitely emphasized a few things there that I also wanted to mention earlier. Emotional regulation is one of them. I would definitely want a child to be able to recognize how they feel before And be able to identify their feelings, right, before I would probably push them to go to school regularly because I think it's really important for children to understand when they're happy versus when they're excited versus when they're really, really mad.

Because it can feel the same in your body when you're really mad, you can't talk, you can't think straight, your emotions are so big. And it's the same way when you're excited. So some kids get labeled as being aggressive or being, you know. hands on with other kids when they reach out and slap a person.

But the truth is sometimes that can be out of like, you know, being exuberant and being so excited about something and you end up like, you know, not understanding that your personal physical boundaries have crossed someone else's. And I think that's going to be something that parents need to also pay attention to.

Does your child understand, um, you know, when their emotions are big? Can they still pay attention to their surroundings?  Are they able to express themselves? Express it through words versus their entire bodies, because sometimes that can happen. Kids run into each other because they're very, very excited, but then they get mislabeled as being bullies because they hit someone and somebody. 

Yeah, that's true. A lot of actions that are actually maybe kids just learning to control their bodies can be misinterpreted. A hundred percent. And in terms of impulse control, I really like that you brought that up because Again, impulse control is one of those things, right? As a child, very young kid, you definitely don't necessarily think of how it might be from the perspective of another person.

So your first instinct is maybe to grab or to say something or to go somewhere. And I think having that Awareness, that self awareness is going to be important when you're putting a kid through school because it can become a safety issue when they don't have impulse control for others and for themselves.

So I think those are some of the big ones that I would probably think about. Just to add to that, you know, when you put your kid through preschool, I think one thing that you really have to consider is that, you know, the school isn't there to teach the child specifically. I mean, yeah, you're gonna, he or she is going to learn new things, but you have to think of it really as Um, Preschool is going to be an extension of what your family is, or what you've been teaching already throughout the first one, maybe two, even three years.

Taking turns might be a little easier because now there are more kids to take turns with. But, you know, ideally, the taking turns starts at home, even if it's just mom, dad, and then your child.  Learning to read, yeah, that comes in later through preschool, but, you know, an appreciation for storytelling and appreciation for having conversations, that comes from the interaction with the kids, and, you know, sometimes, like us, you know, in retrospect, maybe we started our child in preschool at a certain time because we knew that at that time, we would not be able to sustain it, right?

Right. More than a couple of years, at least not sustained on a daily basis because we couldn't stay home anymore and we really had to get back to work or our hours would start to become longer and longer at the hospital. So we wouldn't really be able to follow through that much, except maybe on weekends or after work.

So we were looking for someone to help us build on what we already had started to build for our family. And that's probably why. Or one of the reasons why people will choose to start putting their kids in at a certain age, whether it's three or four. At least here in the Philippines, you are required to go to kindergarten at five.

And I know some kids who started kindergarten but really didn't have any other schooling. They stay with their folks, uh, cousins. Uh, it really depends on what family environment you have and what's available already at home before you start going to school. I love that you said that, Jack. I completely agree.

That really choosing a school is about choosing what you want your child to have as an experience. I remember  when my first kid was going to go to preschool, one of the godmothers of my kid was really adamant that she wanted my child.  We're close, so it's okay that she's this vocal about it. But she really wanted my child to go into Montessori.

Um, she had this preference for this school. And Montessori schools are great, right? But I went for an assessment with my child for this school,  and then my kid just refused to answer any of the questions. And then we rode the car, and then he goes to his godmother, and he goes, you know, the answer to the questions that they were asking me, and then he suddenly gave all the different answers.

So his godmother goes, well, why didn't you say that when, when they were asking you? Now you can't go to that school. And then my kid goes, well, yeah, because I don't like that school. And I think that's something that we have to keep in mind, right? That the goodness of fit for a school sometimes is also going to be based on what your child  likes and where your child feels comfortable.

Um, I think sometimes we forget that because we have goals and we want to make sure that, you know, they're getting into the best schools with the best teachers where. Graduates move on to a different school, but we have to also listen to what makes sense to our child. Where do they want to go? And sometimes the preferences can be that obvious. 

Dr. Janice, I'm glad they were able to express their preferences and I just want to say that Dr. Janice has these two delightful kids who were really well able to adjust to a move halfway across the world. And they were also wonderful in playing with my kids. And so. They have excellent social skills. So I just want to point this out that you're hearing from two pediatricians who are also parents who have been there and they have seen the long term effects of these decisions that they have made.

And I know that this decision on when to start preschool and what to start preschool. Before your child's preschool years, they can feel like huge decisions at this moment, but we encourage you to also take a step back and relax and remember that the most important thing that builds your child's brain right now is actually your relationship with them.

If you notice, a lot of the examples that they gave are all about our relationship. Because research shows that that is the most important thing that is critical to a child's brain development. So we're going to have our next episode, which is focused on choosing a preschool. But before we end this first episode about school readiness, breaking the myths about school readiness and talking about what are the things that we do need to build for school readiness.

So it's not about academics, but it's all about holistic development. Can we hear tips from our two guests about if we are going to send our child to preschool, what are the things that we can do at home before then to help our kids get ready? Let's see.  Off the top of my head, things that you could prepare your child for.

Well, it's not something that you teach, but for me, before considering even bringing your child to school, see how he or she relates to other kids, whether it's in the neighborhood, cousins. Do you feel that your child is ready in terms of, well, if I leave my child with an aunt or a grandmother or a grandfather, is he or she ready to, be separated from me for a long time?

Or is this still a big issue that, you know, you just leave their room for five minutes and they start crying? Because obviously when you leave them in school, it's going to take a period of adjustment. Do they take instructions well from other people, or are they really shy? I mean, yeah, you know, the kids are going to get adjusted sooner or later, but still you want school to be a positive experience for them.

And while you might be able to stay inside the preschool for the first few days or even for a week or two. Sooner or later, you want to see if they're ready. And if they're not, you know, you don't have to start at two. You don't even have to start at one and a half. You start when you feel that they're comfy with it.

Sometimes, of course, the choice is out of our hands and you really have to start and, you know, maybe we're entertaining preschool with daycare, but, you know, we're still talking about them being outside of the house at a particular age and starting to interact with people who are total strangers to them.

And sometimes you have to think about that too. Are they showing too much stranger anxiety? How do they adjust in a new, in a new environment? Is this something easy for them? Or is this something that really terrifies them? Something to think about, I guess. I wanted to say that my tip is probably going to be very unpopular  with some parents.

But one of my tips would be to limit screen time. Um, for your child and probably instead of letting your child have more screen time, I would say, I encourage parents to play with their children. I completely agree with Dr. Jack's comment about how they can play with their children. Interact with other kids would probably be one of the best ways for you to see whether or not they're ready to interact with kids for half a day, for a whole day.

And how they interact with other adults would also be key. But I also think that you get to know your child and you understand when your child might be ready, when you interact more and know your child more. And so the only way that you can actually do that is to spend time and play with your child.

When you're playing with your child, can your child wait for their turn? Can your child communicate when they are getting upset or getting frustrated? Can your child, you know, keep their hands to themselves when they're about to hit? And you say, hands to yourself, please, or gentle hands or whatever it is.

Are they able to control those impulses? Are they able to play nice? with you when you're playing together. I think those are some of the things that I would look out for. I also think that it's a good time for you to say, bring your kids out and play with other kids in the playground and observe whether or not other children can understand how your child is speaking or their use of language.

I think. That's going to play a part in whether or not your child is ready, and maybe if you catch some of those delays, definitely seek out, you know, your family doctor or your pediatrician to ask for some tips on how you can maybe catch up if there's, say, a language delay or a social delay.  So those are some of the things that I would think about and don't be afraid to also ask some parents for maybe some of their experiences, but keep in mind that, you know, parenting, the parenting journey is going to be different for everyone.

So what might have worked for them might not work for you, and that's okay. Yeah. Dr. Janice, it's true what you said might be counterintuitive because I know that a lot of parents think that part of school readiness is adding screen time, which is letting them watch those videos on the alphabet and numbers, but it might be counterproductive because we have heard from teachers that they find it so difficult to teach kids who are already used to the screens.

And then they may have a hard time with in person experiences. The teacher isn't going to be as exciting as all those animated figures of numbers jumping all over the screen. So they have to be able to be ready to engage with in person experiences.  So I guess we can trust that the school can teach the numbers and the letters in time.

And I know that I have heard parents who were told by the schools that your child is three, your child needs to know the alphabet already. So I guess that is where the pressure is coming from. And if the school is telling you that, then you may have to rethink about whether that is developmentally appropriate school.

And sometimes I hear from schools that it's the parents who ask, like, my child is three, you know, how come they're playing? How come they're not being made to memorize the alphabet yet? So I guess the pressure goes. both ways. I guess we can all take a step back and relax. Let's stop putting this pressure on the kids.

I know the world today feels so competitive. We want our kids to succeed for the long term, but long term success is about giving them a good school experience, giving them the idea that learning is fun, and teaching skills at the time when it is appropriate, when it is developmentally appropriate, and not pushing these academic skills early at the expense of the social skills and the regulation skills.

So if you enjoyed this episode, head over to discerningparenting. com slash start school. And you're going to see a course that we work on together with Dr. Janice and Dr. Jack. About school readiness, and you can also pick up along with it our course about emotional regulation, which is a very important to helping kids with their successful start to school.

So our course about school start success would have issues like school related anxiety, how we can deal with it. positive parenting in starting school, even talking about, uh, issues such as bullying and of course helping kids get ready for school. So thank you so much and be sure to follow the Discerning Parenting podcast so you don't miss our next episode where we talk about choosing a school as well as talking about the differences between traditional and progressive or Montessori.

Thank you very much.