073 - Is your child ready for potty training? with Drs. Jack Herrin & Janys Lim

Is your child ready to be potty trained? Do we even need to wait for readiness, or can anyone really potty train at any time and have it over and done with in 30 days or less?

In this episode, you’ll hear from trusted developmental pediatricians Dr. Janys Lim from Ontario, Canada, and Dr. Jack Herrin from Manila, Philippines. 

We'll tackle questions such as:

• Is there one right way to potty train (like many on the internet claim)?
• What influences when and how we potty train?
• What are the signs that your child is ready to be potty trained?
• What are signs that you may need to wait?

After listening to this episode, you'll be able to remove a lot of the stress, guilt, and pressure around potty training!

Want to potty train your child in a way that is relaxed and flexible, and does not induce guilt, frustration, or power struggles? Click here and check out our course Potty Training Playbook.

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Transcript

Is your child ready to be potty trained? And do we even need to wait for readiness or can we actually potty trained whenever we decide? So to answer this, joining me today is Dr. Janice Lim, a developmental and behavioral pediatrician from Ontario, Canada and Dr. Jack Haring, a developmental and behavioral pediatrician from Manila Philippines.

And the wonderful thing is both of them. Are also parents. 

Are there days you feel you've had it with the sleepless nights, the temper tantrums, the constant fatigue of trying to keep up with an active baby? Does it feel like you're always working so hard as a parent trying to do everything for your kids and family, and yet it never feels enough?

We get it. You love your child more than anything, and yet parenting is also exhausting and challenging, especially when you're bombarded with criticism and pressure to be the perfect. Which spoiler alert does not exist. That's why we created Discerning Parenting, the podcast that helps you cut through the noise and focus on what truly matters in your parenting journey.

This podcast is jam-packed with valuable insights and practical tips, specifically tailored for parents of kids age five and below. So join us and discover how you can use the combined power of science, knowing your child and your own intuition in making the best parenting decisions for you and your family.

Dr. Victoria Ang-Nolasco: Now I remember two of my mom friends and one of them potty trained her child over a weekend and another did not even attempt to potty train her child at all. So she told me that one day her child just said, mommy, I don't want to wear di purse anymore. So she said, okay, fine. So don't wear di purse. And then was dry from then.

So if you look at the internet, we see a lot of advice saying that this is the right way to potty train. This is the right time to potty train. Some of them say you need to wait for readiness. Some of them say there's no such thing as readiness. You just decide when you're going to potty train. So it's one of these moms, right?

And the other is wrong. It's one method, correct, and the other one is wrong. So to help us today, Would be our two guest experts, uh, Dr. Janice Lim and Dr. Jack Haring. So maybe you'd like to tell us also a bit about yourselves and your experiences. 

Hi, I'm Jack. I'm a developmental pediatrician practicing in Manila.

I'm a dad and I've got two daughters in high school. It's nice to be here. That's usually about it. . Okay. 

Well, that's a great introduction. All I have say now is, hi, . . I have two kids in elementary, . Um, yeah. And from your stories about your friend's kids, I think, um, my kids were kind of the same. Like I had two different experiences between them.

With regards to potty training, I think a lot of our ideas about potty training and the pressure that we feel really stems from the environment where we are at the cultural expectations as well. Um, yeah, I think it's definitely influenced by that. Yeah, 

It's true that quality training is cultural. Uh, that's why it's great that my two guests today actually come from opposite sides of the.

Because a lot of body training is really cultural. Like, uh, I remember when my. Son was a baby. It was my mother-in-law who taught me how to recognize baby's cues. And then she said, oh, when you see these cues, you bring baby to the party. When he's ready, you bring, bring baby to the pot. Uh, after waking up and after feeding and started, I learned that on the internet, this is actually a hot topic and it's called elimination communication.

And it's something that my mother-in-law taught me. And there are a lot of people who insist that there's only one right. To do something. And if you're not following their method, then you're doing something wrong. And a lot of moms feel guilty about this. Like for example, oh, I saw on the internet I'm supposed to do this, and so and so for potty training.

Or I saw on the internet that my two-year-old is supposed to be potty trained already, but he's, but he's not now. To claim that your method is the only correct one, you'll need conclusive, well conducted studies that those who did not follow that method had adverse outcomes. And to date, I haven't encountered any research that says this about any of the party training methods.

I haven't seen any party training method that show studies that those who didn't follow that party training. Adverse outcomes. Would you agree 

Jack and Janice? I think it's a huge stretch to say that only one method would be good. . Definitely. I dunno, exactly. What are your thoughts? Yeah, 

Definitely. Yeah.

Well, well 

I believe that, you know, everybody has his or her own method. We all did it differently probably when our children were younger. Um, you know, When, when our parents were younger, it wasn't like the internet was there and you could search, how do I toilet train my kids? So a lot of it, like you said, was passed on from grandparents and their grandparents maybe, and I'm pretty sure there are so many ways to go about it with the same outcome.

Dr. Janys Lim: Yeah. Yeah. And I think what's important to remember is that when you're body training, Yes, adults have guidelines and obviously it's based on their own experiences and maybe, you  know, the, their elders experiences of how to do it effectively. But let's not take away a very important factor when we're dealing with body training.

Let's think about the child, right? A lot of body training readiness is not just the physical readiness of a child, but also their mental and emotional read. And I think we as adults, we forget to maybe take that into consideration that different personalities, different impairments, can have different reactions to toilet training.

Um, and it's really important to be sensitive to the cues that your child is also sending you when it comes to it. Because you also don't wanna cost them distress. Right. Obviously as a parent, you're not seeking to stress them out, and it's a stressful situation when you're not ready for it. 

Yeah, that's so true.

Uh, so what do you think would be the signs of party training readiness? So, uh, we mentioned something [00:07:00] about the physical readiness. So what would. Uh, and then there are also emotional and mental signs of readiness. So what would be the signs that a parent can look for that can tell them that, okay, it's time that I can start potty training now.

Well, you've 

Dr. Jack Herrin: probably heard this from me before, but how does your child communicate? It still comes back to that. Does he or she understand when you say, tell me before you go or tell me if you're. Uh, if, if a child cannot say or even pull on your, on your shirt to say that he needs to use the restroom, then how do we expect them to be able to tell us when they need to go?

So again, is your child able to communicate his basic needs? Uh, I'm hungry, I'm thirsty, I need to go. It hurts. Come here and help me. If they can't do that, then. We shouldn't be expecting them to do something even more difficult. 

Yeah. I think we also have to think about, um, maybe some of the signs that they're not able to say by language, but observe behaviors.

Some of the things that I would ask parents to watch out for would be how long can your child stay dry? Right? Whether or. Um, you're paying attention to maybe there's verbal signals you can figure out, okay, how many times did I change the diaper and when I change it every four hours versus every six hours, is it the same amount of soaking that I'm seeing here?

Or is it like quite heavy, which means they're probably going every hour instead of every two or three or four, right? So I think that's part of it. Um, and obviously if your child. More aware, then they might be able to control some of that sensation, the physical sensations that they have during the daytime, more than they would overnight.

Um, so that's also something that you can observe. Is your daytime, um, intervals the same as nighttime intervals? Is one longer than the other? You know, is your child kind of pausing? A little bit before they pee or who, um, that's one of the things that kind of give you an idea that they are able to sense their bodies and the way that their bodies are functioning.

Um, other signs that I ask parents to watch out for, do they run to a particular area in the room? Where you know, they seek comfort or they hide because they're kind of embarrassed that they're doing something and they already have that idea that maybe it's not something that other people wanna experience with them because, Um, one of the things that I've realized is that some children can definitely pick up our juice, right?

When we react to the smell of poo in their diapers, they realize that, oh, when I poo I shouldn't be around other people. Cause they might react. And so other kids, um, might hide or squeeze themselves into tight corners or hold onto something when they're straining, um, to poop. So these are some of the signs that I ask the parents to watch out.

Um, also tapping of the diaper. Some children will go up to their parents and actually tap the diaper and pull on their parents because they want to be changed. So obviously your child has some idea, um, of it needing to be changed. And so that's also a good sign that maybe they're ready for a next step cause they're feeling that discomfort of a wet.

Yeah, that's excellent. So, uh, if, uh, we see our kids doing any of these things, then those could be possible signs that they're ready for potty training. Are there certain developmental milestones that they should have, uh, reached first, uh, before we potty train them? Well, yeah, I'm gonna keep talking about communication, so, you know,

Yeah, true. But that's important though. Yeah, right. It's consistent, it's language, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. 

Um, I think one of the reasons why there's some confusion in answering this question is that there are many definitions of potty training. For example, if you bring your baby to the potty and then baby goes, uh, does this mean that the baby is potty training?

Because if that's a definition of party training, then uh, maybe we don't need to wait until the baby is walking independently. But if our definition of body training, meaning means that the child walks to the toilet independently, removes the underwear and knows how to clean up afterwards, then that means that the child has to be, has to have achieved these developmental milestones and the developmental milestone of walking independently.

Uh, the developmental milestone of taking off underwear and then putting it back on  afterwards. And also, There are different ages for being poop trained and being p trained, and then day training and night training. So these don't happen all at the same time. How about, uh, on the flip side, are there signs that the child is not ready for potty training?

So, for example, uh, we get variants who are trying to potty train. They, then they get frustrated because it's not working for. And then they think that, oh, maybe I am doing it wrong. Uh, they feel like they're failing as parents or feeling guilty. So, uh, when sometimes maybe it's not that they're doing something wrong, but maybe they just need to wait.

Uh, maybe there are certain signs that the child is not yet ready. Are there certain signs that if you see them, then maybe the child is not yet ready for party training and maybe it may be better to.

I think it's important that each parent manage his or her own expectations. We all have different, you know, when we say potty training, like you said earlier, what does it mean exactly for a family? So depending on the age of your child, will you be happy if your child says, mom, I have to go, or will you be happy if the child just pulls on you to say that I'm done?

Or. Enough that a child cannot necessarily run to the bathroom but cries to get your attention that their diaper is soaked. It depends on the age of the child and what will you be happy with as a good starting point. Once you have that starting point, then you can work on, uh, however, which way you want to make that progress.

If you're expecting a child has to say before they have to go at a younger age, Then maybe the expectations aren't that realistic as well. 

I, I wanted to answer, um, the question about developmental milestones.  Um, I think you brought up a good, um, issue, right? Like, and how do we know when they're not ready?

I think one of the things that we have to realize it is definitely a combination of skills, and I think Jack brought it up earlier about the communication piece being really important. So your child being able to communicate in some way, whether verbally or non-verbally, that they're ready or they're okay to do it, um, is going to be important, but also how stable do they feel when you're asking them to sit on a potty.

That seems too big and seems too. Versus say, are they feeling okay when you're having them sit in a small body chair that's like plastic and isn't heavy enough to pull them, and they're always worried that they might tip over. So these are considerations that you have to think about. How stable are they in going up the stairs if your washroom happens to be upstairs?

And that's where the toilet. Um, or going down the stairs or running. Um, I think these are things that you have to consider. Also the social aspect. Um, a lot of party training or toilet training is because they have an understanding of the social expectation of parents that they will go to the party. Um, they have to be able to understand that.

There's a stage in, uh, toddler's life where a lot of the motivation that they get is to please their parents, to seek their parents' approval. And so they might try harder to be pot trained if their parents are rewarding them, whether in verbal craze, right in treats, in rewards, in staying dry. Um, so their understanding of that is going to be important.

One other thing is with communication, you have to think about how many steps in an instruction can your child actually follow? Because there's a lot of steps in being toilet trained that we take for granted and we assume a child will understand. But to understand that, You are about to pee or you are about to who.

And then feel that sensation, recognize that sensation, be able to identify what the bathroom is or where it is and how to get there. And then you get there. And then what is the first step that you do? You sit on the party right away. Cause if mom's always pulling down the diaper for you and putting you on the.

You might forget that you actually have to pull down your diaper before you sit on the potty. Right? Um, so things like that, and how stable is that stool that you're stepping on to get to the toilet even. Um, and then you have to remember, oh, you're gonna wipe yourself. And then, oh my gosh, the, the flash is too far from me and I have to reach.

So, um, it's really something that's complex that we think is very simple. So we have to be aware of how many instructions we're actually asking the child to remember. And if you think your child is able to remember that, then great. But maybe sometimes taking it like step by step, maybe asking them to just remember, you know, two.

And then helping them out with the third, and then once they're good with the first two steps, then maybe an add another two steps. I think we have to remember that. Yeah, these are steps that we have to take slowly and we have to break down even for ourselves to help our child be successful. 

Yeah, that's why I've never been a fan of, uh, methods that insist that you should train, potty, train your child over a weekend or over three.

I mean, definitely there are stories of people who have done that, but if you've followed one of these methods and then it's not working for you, It's not your fault, and it's definitely nothing to, to, uh, feel guilty about. And if, for example, there's this certain timetable that maybe, uh, you saw something on the internet that is imposing this, uh, timetable on you, and then it's not fo, you know, it's not working out for you, then it's not something that you should, uh, stress yourself and also your child.

That said, are there any, uh, maybe warning signs or red flag signs with regards to potty training that, uh, if they're having struggles with potty training, then they should mention it to their, uh, pediatrician? Like offhand? I can think of one. Like for example, if there is a child who has already been consistently party trained for some.

And then suddenly stops being potty trained in, uh, medical terms. You call that incontinence. So they're already potty trained and then, and then they, they're suddenly in incontinent again. They, they keep on consistently. We, again, then this may be something that you need to mention to, to your pediatrician.

Are there other things that you can think of that, uh, is there a certain age that if they're not yet pot trained, then they will need to talk, talk with their pediatrician? Because generally in the clinic understand that we, when we evaluate the child's development, we don't, uh, usually we look at skills such as potty training along with other skills.

We don't look at potty training as a skill in isolation. So, um, what would your thoughts be about this? So I think one of the things that we have to be aware of is the quality of the stool. Um, when we talk about body training, usually that's the bigger problem. Um, you have to understand the quality of your school, of the school, of your child, rather.

Um, when you see things like, you know, it's, it's bloody, there's a lot of pain. Your child is straining and crying right in distress whenever they're. These are things that you do need to get checked out. Um, if the quality is unusual, it's always like diarrhea. It's always very constipated. Um, a lot of parents take constipation for granted as something that's normal.

 Uh, um, I think that they have to seek consult for this because there are ways to manage constipation safely. Um, and it shouldn't be something that's constant for your. Other things that you have to watch out for. If there's any costs that's coming out, discharge somewhere else where it's not just the, you know, the usual holes that you would expect there.

Um, definitely these are things that I would watch out for in terms of medical referrals. I say if your child is consistently still unable beyond the age of four years, you do have to have a check. Again. There are some kids who would probably pot train later than others, and it's not unusual that some of them might.

Dry in the daytime, but still using diapers in the nighttime. But if it's consistently for daytime and nighttime, um, that they're struggling with controlling or sensing some of that, um, toileting sensation, then you do have to have it checked out by your doctor just to make sure that it's not a medical cost.

Yeah. And then signs of distress, I would. Sometimes it's sensory too. Like if you see a child like getting really scared and getting really distressed by the thought of being on the potty or maybe the flushes it or automatic and it's, it's so scary for them. You have to consider behavioral disorders. You have to consider, um, your developmental conditions.

 So have your doctor check. I don't know if I answered that question. Yeah. But more, 

I dunno how comfortable some parents are about modeling the behavior that they want. So how many times have you actually brought your children to the bathroom when you need to pee or do number two? Um, of course it depends, uh, if you have a son or a daughter, and if you're a mom or a dad, There might be some awkwardness if you're bringing a child of the opposite sex in the bathroom, cuz obviously you have different plumbing.

But Sure. You know, dads bring your sons to the bathroom, show them how it's done, and maybe that could help them see that, okay, this is how I'm gonna do it too, whether I'm doing number one or number two. 

Thanks so much for all the things that you shared with us today. And remember, Potty training is not a race, and we often hear it said, but uh, sometimes we do need to get reminded.

When your child enters college, the admission test or the interviewer will never ask at what age she was potty trained. So if you've decided that your child is ready to be potty trained and you want guidance on how to do. Check out the course by Dr. Janice. She has given an excellent training called the Foundations of Potty Training, which guides you through potty training in a way that is stress free.

So we'll have more discussions like this in future episodes, so be sure to follow the show and leave us a review so you help other parents benefit from our podcast too. And don't forget, head over to discerning parenting.com/toddler. And you'll see resources on Father Parenting, including Dr. Janice course, foundations of Body Training.

So thank you so much, doctors, Jack and Janice for joining us today. You're welcome. 

Nice being here. Yeah, thanks for having us. Thank you.