069 - Have a Dog, Expecting a Baby: What You Need to Know with Jane Rosenblum

This episode delves into the delightful yet complex world of pets and parenthood. With a surge of inquiries from concerned parents about introducing a new baby into a household with pets, we turn to Jane Rosenblum, a seasoned authority on dogs, kids, and family dynamics.

In the first installment of a two-part series, we focus on the crucial considerations for expectant parents and moms with young babies who share their homes with furry companions. Jane Rosenblum offers invaluable insights, addressing common concerns and providing practical tips to ensure a harmonious transition for both human and canine family members.

So whether you're eagerly anticipating the pitter-patter of tiny feet alongside your loyal pup or seeking guidance on nurturing a bond between your child and furry friend, this episode promises a wealth of expert advice. Stay tuned till the end for a treasure trove of tips from Jane Rosenblum that will leave you feeling confident and prepared for the journey ahead.

Meet our guest:
Jane Rosenblum began her career as a registered nurse, specializing in psychiatric care and advocating for at-risk children within families. Recognizing a need for guidance on dog-child interactions, she transitioned to become a certified dog trainer in 2003. With a Bachelor of Science from San Francisco State University and a Certificate in Training & Counseling from the San Francisco SPCA Academy for Dog Trainers, she now offers vital support to families with young children and dogs. Leveraging her background in nursing, she provides expert advice and practical solutions for ensuring safe and harmonious relationships between pets and children.

• Check out Jane's Ebooks to help you navigate your baby and dog journey.
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Transcript

We've been getting a lot of questions from parents about pets.  What do we do if we have a pet and then we're expecting a baby? Or is it time to get my child a pet? Or my relatives, the rest of my family and I, we don't agree about pets. I love my dog, they don't like my dog. So we've invited  Jane Rosenblum, who is an expert about dogs and kids and families.

And we have a series of two episodes about her.  Today, we're going to answer the question, if you're expecting a baby and you have a dog, what are the things that you need to consider? So, expectant moms or even moms with young babies, and you also love your furry friend, you're going to love this episode.

So be sure to stay tuned all the way until the end because Jane shares with us. So many wonderful tips. 

 Welcome to Discerning Parenting, the podcast for parents of kids aged 12 and under who have learned the hard way that a one-size-fits-all approach to parenting won't shift the needle for you, your child, or your family. Together, We'll explore intentional strategies that see both you and your kids thrive. 

Parenting strategies based on well-conducted research in the areas of child development, brain science, and neurodiversity are practical for you.  What if you let go of perfect and embrace discerning parenting in your family instead?  If you feel like you've been stumbling your way through. And you're ready to leave behind fight or flight mode parenting.

Then, this is the podcast for you.  I'm Dr. Victoria Ang-Nolasco, Developmental and Behavioral Pediatrician and Positive Parenting Coach, on a mission to help you release your parenting guilt so you can become laser-focused on what will truly work for you.  

So hello, Jane. Welcome to the Discerning Parenting podcast. It's evening over there and it's morning here. We're on opposite sides of the world. So thank you for being here.

 Well, thank you. I'm very happy to be doing this and giving as much information as I can to parents in your home. It's so nice to talk with Jane. If you can see her right now, she is always so cheerful. She has so much positive energy that you can see how she's able to come, and how different Pets will love her.

Babies kids and families also love her. Her background is she is a psychiatric nurse who helped her clients solve family problems and also acted to protect children, including children who were at risk. And then she also became a dog trainer. So she had A lot of work helping parents who would ask her if their dog's behavior was safe around their children, especially their babies, and they wondered about how to teach their dogs to be calm and well-behaved around children. 

So today, in her advocacy, Your Dog and Baby, she offers education and support for families with dogs babies and toddlers. So, let's dive in. Jane, is there anything that you would like to tell our listeners before we begin?  Well, you did a great job of subbing up my background and,  I will tell you that really what motivated me to become a dog trainer was that when I was working with families, I saw problems. 

between dogs and children.  And as a psychiatric nurse, I really couldn't work with the dogs and I, you know, I couldn't answer questions about that.  So I decided to become a dog trainer and combine both of those. So I have, the background and experience working with families with children. And now I include.

The dogs with that too. And I found it's very, very helpful because often people don't really think about how the dogs are going to feel about a new baby or a toddler.  And so getting some guidance helps them to keep the dog at home and to keep the, Keep things safe. And that's, that's really the first concern of parents. 

Yeah, that is so true, Jane. So are there issues involved when the dog owner is expecting a baby? I mean, I know a lot of people may not even think of this as a question. Some may think that the adjustment should be automatic, like, oh, this is a dog who's been in the family for years loving, kind, well trained.

So is there really any untouched? Adjustments. So, what are the issues? What are the things that dog owners need to consider if you're expecting a baby?  Well, you're right. Many people don't think about it, and many people have said, parents have said to me, Well, my dog is friendly, so I thought everything would be fine.

And then they bring the baby home, and when you think about it, most dogs have never seen a newborn baby. They haven't been exposed to babies and it's something new.  And so, some dogs are afraid of the baby, which sounds kind of funny that the big dog would be afraid of a little tiny baby.  But it happens quite a bit.

And other dogs are kind of rough. They want to play. They're very curious. They want to get to the baby and so on. So, All of these things make parents very nervous. I just got an email the other day from somebody who'd say, my dog is so insistent about getting to the baby, and she said it's the most stressful part of postpartum time for me. 

So I, I want to tell you, there are several things that parents can do before the baby is born that can really help a lot.  And I want to mention too that I have share three e-books. for different stages of that time, and there's a lot of good practical information in them, there will be a link there so you can check them out.

 The first thing is to think about the dog. Is this a dog that's not only friendly, but is the dog confident in new situations? Does the dog like meeting new people? Has the dog Yeah, because different dogs have different temperaments, just like people.  Right, right. Every dog is a little bit different, and so,  it's very helpful to think about your dog I mean, the fact that the dog is friendly doesn't guarantee that he might not have a little  nervousness around the baby, but it's helpful.

On the other hand, if you have a dog that is afraid a lot and afraid of new things and new people, And especially may be afraid of children, then that's a different thing. So that, that helps you, that tells you where you might have  something you, you need to, just be careful about when the baby's born.

 A second thing you can do is go through your home, and I always advise the clients I work with to do this before the baby's born. Walk through your home and think about where are you going to be feeding the baby. Where are you going to change the baby? Where's the baby going to sleep? Do you have a separate room for the nursery?

And so on.  And think about that in relation to your dog. If you're planning to sit on the couch and nurse your baby, And the dog likes to be on the couch,  that's something you might want to change before the baby arrives. Get the dog used to not getting on the couch unless you invite him up, and so on. I imagine if we didn't anticipate that, it's going to be so stressful when that time happens.

Well, it can be because people You know, a mother sits down to feed the baby, whether she's nursing the baby or bottle feeding, and the dog is very curious. He wants to know what's going on. And dogs will jump up on the couch and they try to push their nose in to see what's happening and so on. And you know, that is not something you want happening when you have a newborn baby.

So that would be a good time to teach the dog. to stay on the floor when you're sitting on the couch, unless you invite him up, and so on. And that's all in the e books, how, how you do that.  A third thing is that you're going to have new equipment when you come in. Some people get bouncy seats for their babies.

You  might have a, you know, you have a stroller, a crib,  I imagine they would all be so attractive to the dog. Well, they're attractive. Some dogs are afraid of new things. Some dogs are a little leery, so it's good to bring that new equipment in, set it up, and just leave it there and not coax the dog over to it,  but just let the dog come and check those things out. 

before the baby's there. All of that will help.  Another thing you can do, which is very helpful, is to  roll up a towel, so it's about the size of a baby, I call it a towel baby, and wrap it in a baby blanket,  And then pretend you're doing baby care with it. Carry, carry it around, sit on the couch with it, holding it, and so on. 

And that, down, the dog will know the difference between that and a real baby. But it,  allows the dog to get used to seeing you doing those, those new behaviors.  So all of those things help prepare the dog for the baby, so it's not, not so much of a new thing when the baby arrives.  Well, thank you for  So before the baby arrives first evaluate the dog for their friendliness to new people and experiences.

And then second, look at the home setup and consider where you will be doing the different baby care activities. And third, preparing the dog for the baby. So showing the dog new equipment and letting them get used to it. Get used to you doing care activities. And I know one of the things that you also advise families to teach parents when they're preparing for a new baby is to not let the dog go into the nursery without invitation, which can take getting used to.

So like, for example, if the dog used to be able to go everywhere around the house.  Right, that, that's true, and it, now some parents decide they don't want the dog to go into the nursery at all, ever.  Other parents,  Say, yes, it's okay for the dog to be in the nursery,  but the one thing I really don't recommend is what you just said letting the dog just wander in and out on his own. 

Because if you do that,  someday it's gonna happen, the door's gonna be open, the dog's gonna go in there, and the baby's in there, and nobody knows, and nobody's supervising.  So you want to teach the dog and that, that's something that can be done  but I also recommend, of course, having baby gates or closing the door, something, just make sure and I'll talk about supervision also in a minute.

And supervision is very, very important and that means an adult should be there all the time. Baby and dog should never be left alone, even for a minute. very much. Just, just for safety, no matter how calm the dog,  behaves, it's just a good idea.  And no matter how many stories we hear in the media like, Oh, this dog is actually taking care of the baby.

We hear stories like that all the time.  Well,  it's unfortunate. I know if you, if you look on YouTube, you can see a lot of videos too of babies, you know, their parents put them on the dog's back to ride the dog like a horse and they're poking their fingers in the dog's mouth and all that stuff. It's not safe.

It isn't safe. So we want to be respectful of the dog and we want to make sure that nothing goes wrong. So, yeah, those are not good ideas.  That's true.  So, Jane, thank you for sharing your tips about preparing your home. So, how about afterward? Like, you're bringing the baby home after just giving birth. What are the things that parents can watch out for and what can they do? 

Okay. Well, let me say, first of all, when you first bring your baby home, I did mention supervision before and I want to mention that again and be very specific about it because often parents will say to me after there's a problem, they say, I just didn't realize how closely I needed to supervise.  So, supervision means an adult being there often, preferably between the dog and the baby.

I would be careful about places like on the couch if it's a dog's place that he likes to sleep.  You don't want the baby up there with him when he's asleep on the couch. You want them separate. I tell people either baby or dog on the couch, but not together.  It's good for dogs to have a safe place somewhere in the house where they can be away from the baby.

And parents can put the dog for a while and this should be a place with a nice comfy bed for the dog, some toys maybe a chew toy, something the dog likes, so that they can give the dog some time away from a baby.  One important thing, that many dogs are a little fearful of the baby, and they don't want to get close.

If that's the case, let the dog have as much distance as he wants, and never coax the dog over toward the baby with food treats.  It's good to keep food away when the The dog and the baby are together, and I know sometimes parents want the dog to like the baby, and they want that so much that if the dog isn't paying attention to the baby, they will coax the dog over with food,  and that can make the dog very nervous.

If he's already nervous about the baby, you don't want to coax him to go past his comfort zone.  So I tell people, let's, you know, don't coax the dog over, let him take his time to get to know the baby.   The other thing is when the baby starts crawling and moving around by himself, one important thing is to keep the baby from going toward the dog, because dogs can get scared if the baby is crawling toward the dog, and often dogs will go under a piece of furniture, they'll go into a tight space to hide.

And the baby will chase them into there, and that is not safe. The dogs can get really scared. So this is, again, where supervision comes in. Important to be right there and either move the baby away or move the dog.  I'll give one other tip too, because this often gets misunderstood. Sometimes the dog will growl at the baby, and parents can get Very nervous about that.

And they often ask me, should I punish the dog for growling? Should I correct him? What does a growl mean? When the dog growls at the baby, 99 times out of a hundred, it means the dog needs space. It does not necessarily mean the dog hates the baby or he's going to bite. It means it's too close for comfort for the dog.

So the thing to do is please don't punish the dog for growling because that's going to make him even more nervous and more defensive. The thing to do, if you hear your dog growling at the baby is, first of all, you need to get in there and take care of it. And you take care of it by picking up the baby and moving the baby away.

And then you might want to move the dog behind a baby gate or into another room, separate them, and then the dog will be comfortable. And there, there's a lot of that that takes place, with dogs and babies.  One other tip that goes along with this is that it's very important to use positive, rewarding ways of working with the dog, not punishing the dog.

Now I looked a little bit about dog trainers in your area, and there are both kinds. There are some that are called force-free, and that's what you want to look for. A trainer that says they use force-free training methods. There are other dogs that trainers that can be kind of rough with dogs and that, I, I don't do that kind of training and I think it's really can be risky when there are children around because it can frighten the dogs.

and make them defensive and more likely to react. So that's, that's true. And that can also make them more aggressive towards, other members of the family and the kids at home. So when would you recommend calling a dog trainer? So thank you for the tips that you shared I imagine is a good way of Helping the dog adjust to the new member of the family that you've been so excited about.

So,  yeah, yeah, that's true. So are there times that families may need to call a dog trainer to help them with this situation? And what would be the signs that a dog trainer may be able to help them? And I'm glad you said to choose a force-free dog trainer. Yes, yeah, yeah. So here is kind of a list of what you would look for. 

First of all, if you're not sure if things are safe or not, maybe they are, but as a parent, you're not sure if your dog's really safe around the baby, get an expert to tell you that. So it's worth often one visit from a dog trainer can answer a lot of questions and be very helpful.  the second thing is if your dog is nervous around the baby, and that happens more often than you might think, but after three or four months the dog should be over that.

The dog should have adjusted. If the dog still has not, adjusted and the dog is afraid of the baby, the dog runs away when the baby cries and so on. I would ask a dog trainer about that because that dog is unhappy and he's, you know, most of the time dogs do adjust but occasionally there's one that just can't and so that, that's a time to find out from an expert if your dog is just having too much trouble with the baby.

If a dog is barking at the baby, growling, staring with a stiff body, anything, that, that can be scary. And I would keep that dog separated and I would definitely call a dog trainer. If you can find a dog trainer that is used to working with dogs around children, that's even better. But I would get some professional help then.

 And of course, if the dog tries to bite the baby, or is looking like he might bite the baby, absolutely get it. Call a dog trainer and keep the dogs separated from the baby until somebody comes and helps you with it. So those are some guidelines. Thank you. And now a common question that that I get, like I remember there was this time I was at a webinar, and one of the questions, it was a webinar about parenting, and one of.

Because multi-generational living is very common here. So there was this time I was at the webinar and then parent asked, she's living with her in-Laws. She has a dog and her in-laws don't like her dog, but she really loves her dog so much. So how is she going to deal with the conflict with her in loss over the dog?

And to be honest, I, I was thinking I. I talk about parenting and I'm not really equipped to talk about dog parenting. So, but I know that as a parent, this is a common concern and boundaries around pets, especially when there are other relatives living in the same house. How would you recommend that parents handle situations like that?

 Well, I think I would first  If I were working with that family, I would first try to find out why the in laws don't like the dog. Is it something the dog is doing? Is the dog behaving in ways that make it difficult for those, for the in laws? Or is it just that they don't like dogs, period? I, I think it, for, that would be the place to start, to find out, just, exactly what the problem is, because I know sometimes those things don't get discussed in detail.

Find out if it's something fixable, if it's the dog's behavior, maybe that would be a time for a trainer who could help work with the dog.  Often there are ways to keep the dog separated. Maybe the dog doesn't have to be around the whole family all the time. So that might make it better if the, if there are certain times that the in laws would like a break from the dog and the parents can provide that. 

That's another idea. I mean, for me, I always hope to keep the dog in the home, partly for the people who want the dog there, but also for the dog because it's very traumatic for a dog to be moved to another home or taken to a shelter. I mean, it's just like Giving away a child, in a way, and so, you know, I hate to see that happen.

I, I know sometimes it causes so much conflict there isn't any other solution, but,  those are some things I would try first, you know, getting some help with the dog's behavior, perhaps bringing in somebody from the outside just to talk as a neutral person to talk to all the parties. and see if they can bring people to some kind of agreement.

Yeah, and Jane can actually help families no matter where you are in the world Jane can talk with you online. She helps families through her books, through her online courses, and also through her coaching. So if you're a parent and then you have any issues at all about dealing with,  Dealing with dogs, then especially dogs and babies, or dogs and families and kids.

Then, Jane, how can they reach you? Well, they can reach me by sending me an email. And all the contact information is on my website and it's just, you'll post, post a link to the website, right? Yeah. So that's yourdogandbaby. com. So head over to yourdogandbaby. com.  Right. And I do offer a. 30-minute, discovery call, which I do on the phone now.

I'm actually not even sure if I can call out of, out of the United States on my, my phone, but if not, we could do it on Zoom and that, that's something that, works worldwide. So yes, I would be happy to help people. And often people have questions and. People are often surprised that the answers are simpler than they thought.

So yeah, if people have questions, I would encourage them to either call me or get, get some other help. Rather than just, Being upset about a problem for a long time because  having a new baby is a challenge in itself. So you want to make it as easy as possible. And I know you dealt with that too. I mean that you do, you do the child part of that.

Yeah.  Thank you so much, Jane, for the wonderful tips that you have shared with us. And if you're in the pregnancy stage, be sure to bookmark this episode so that you can return to Jane's tips about after the baby and be sure also to follow the Discerning Parenting podcast.  📍 At the next episode, we're going to talk about what if you have a toddler?

or a young child and you want to decide is this the right time for my child to have a pet and what are the things that we're going to consider. So thank you so much, Jane. Until next week, bye bye. Bye bye. It was lovely to talk to you and to everybody in your audience.